tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post5893539047161310866..comments2024-02-11T12:01:46.561-08:00Comments on Sharman Ultra: JFK Statfest And Comparing Different Ultra Finish Timessharmanianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14079178597179728898noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-12399911972020274102012-12-03T04:09:28.642-08:002012-12-03T04:09:28.642-08:00Ian there is some really good and quite academic r...Ian there is some really good and quite academic research on the correlation of running times vs distance vs VO2max etc in Tim Noakes' 'Lore of Running'. That is mainly around road races, which have the simplification of largely removing the weather and terrain variables, but interesting you have tried to extend it to trail ultras. Good one.jimmythemuzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18105886399516050765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-26232700505302078432012-11-23T06:43:43.009-08:002012-11-23T06:43:43.009-08:00Awesome post. This beats the heck out of the play ...Awesome post. This beats the heck out of the play by play race report. <br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18188457086652847646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-83242134979033404392012-11-21T21:38:09.604-08:002012-11-21T21:38:09.604-08:00Ian,
I too am wondering all of these questions. A...Ian,<br /><br />I too am wondering all of these questions. As athletes we need challenge and Western States and 100k are on my radar for next year as well as some marathon races. It will be interesting as ultra running's popularity continues to grow how this data will look in 5 years-10 years.<br /><br />I think as runners we enjoy the trails and running with other like minded people. I'm hoping to stay healthy this next year and go after some new race distances. I also think its best to keep changing the stressors on the body which helps create adaptation and fitness in the body. It also helps with the boredom of years and years of doing the same thing. Freshen it up! And, of course go run in the hills with great views!<br /><br />Really enjoyed reading your blog and think your thoughts are quite accurate. Best of luck in your 24 hour in Arizona!<br /><br />Cheers man,<br /><br />Trent<br />trentbriney@hotmail.com<br />trentbriney.com<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13047513832119909511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-2034126033549956722012-11-21T21:34:31.778-08:002012-11-21T21:34:31.778-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13047513832119909511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-71924805656238567122012-11-21T10:43:16.175-08:002012-11-21T10:43:16.175-08:00John,
2:38 isn't a fast marathoner for men (A...John,<br /><br />2:38 isn't a fast marathoner for men (Ann Trason ran a 2:39), being a min/mile slower than the likes of Max/Trent. Most of the top ultra guys can run a 2:3x and some a 2:2x, but I can't think of any 2:1x guys recently who've run major 100 milers and done so at the very top level (I can't even think of any who've been mid-pack, but that's partly due to there not being many guys that fast and that they don't tend to run 100s). But I'd still argue that they don't have nearly the same advantage, if any, as they do in a flatter 50k or 50 miler. <br /><br />Also, the 2 speedy marathoners who're tearing up hillier mid-distance ultras, Max and Sage Canaday, have a very important additional skill - they're on the US mountain running team.sharmanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14079178597179728898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-17523497632697935152012-11-21T10:25:20.133-08:002012-11-21T10:25:20.133-08:00Ian,
One guy with a pretty decent time in a marat...Ian,<br /><br />One guy with a pretty decent time in a marathon (2:38) and 7-time WS winner is Scott Jurek. Now I'm not sure which came first, and he is definitely not a sub-2:30 guy, but it shows that it can be done. <br /><br />John Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12070611434609942985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-15270064626346839832012-11-20T11:30:09.392-08:002012-11-20T11:30:09.392-08:00Thanks. Makes sense. Thanks. Makes sense. James Brennanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832322317888999210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-6998792240711417462012-11-20T09:58:17.389-08:002012-11-20T09:58:17.389-08:00James - I think the marathon/ultra calculator'...James - I think the marathon/ultra calculator's give a good idea of the average transferability of, say, a 5k race time to a marathon time, but there's a huge amount of variation. For example, on McMillan's Running Calculator my marathon time gives me a 5k time that's over a minute faster than I can actually do. The correlation with long stuff (beyond a 50k, which is basically a long marathon) is even weaker since a lot more comes into play than just cardio fitness. McMillan suggests my 100 mile time is equivalent to a marathon WR!<br /><br />So the way I think about it is that everybody has an individual curve of the percentage they slow down per mile as their race distances increase on flat/easy terrain. But the angle of that curve isn't nearly set in stone for all humans, which is what the conversion calculators assume, using an average. But all other things being equal, if your time is improved at one distance it should improve at other distances...that assumes the training involved for that faster time didn't involve a trade-off in specific training for the other distances, which is not always possible.sharmanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14079178597179728898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-803282272364832372012-11-20T06:54:51.313-08:002012-11-20T06:54:51.313-08:00Ian,
I always agree 100% with your analyses. Great...Ian,<br />I always agree 100% with your analyses. Great job making people think!<br />Wanted to get your feedback on this "rule of thumb": In this HADD method to distance running the optimal runner is said to have 15 second intervals between their 5k, 10k, half and marathon times respectively...so your 5k time would be 1:00 less than your marathon per mile pace. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf<br /><br />Do you think you could come up with a corresponding "clock" for 50k, 50 mile, 100k and 100 mile on runnable singletrack? I think a per mile pace table of the above runners might highlight correlation more than finish time. Also add in Wardian and Mackey.<br /><br />Great analysis.<br />JamesJames Brennanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832322317888999210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-73676380417039485262012-11-20T04:51:40.251-08:002012-11-20T04:51:40.251-08:00I agree that there is most likely little correlati...I agree that there is most likely little correlation between marathon time and mountain 100 mile times. But there does appear to be fairly strong correlation between times in mountain ultras of 50 miles or less and marathon time. Freebirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415493405118469817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379797745883386200.post-17644574856554780282012-11-20T04:32:03.910-08:002012-11-20T04:32:03.910-08:00Fascinating read! Thanks!Fascinating read! Thanks!100 Mile Pantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04934805873293163004noreply@blogger.com